> Instead of reprimanding the employees, the company is stated to have rewarded them with full bonuses.
It's not like anyone had previously showed them in the US how to operate... I mean, banks that participated in the mortgage crisis and did the exact same thing never received anything more than some semi-harsh words and bailout packages.
But those were American banks, American insurance companies and American car companies that got bailed out after 2008. See a pattern there? ZTE is Chinese so it gets the book thrown at it.
Not to mention the US government helped create that mortgage crisis with such legislation as the Community Reinvestment Act. It's kind of hard to punish banks for handing out loans to people they knew couldn't pay them back... when the government is the one that was pushing them to do so in the first place.
Try harder! China engages not only in (state sponsored) IP theft but also making it nearly impossible for tech companies to operate in the mainland without giving up trade secrets & so much more, this on top of other restrictions like forcing JV & some such BS. As a matter of fact the Chinese revel in the art of stolen tech, many of them are also proud of it.
Cue the one salty anti-China commenter that always appears on articles on China. At this point it's like a broken record that parrots out the same few points over and over again. "China steals tech blah blah unfair to US blah blah Western companies can't compete"
@Retycint So are you disputing the points or are you just tired of hearing them?
If you are disputing the points, you haven't actually presented an argument here. When one side of a dispute has no case, then the other side can appear more valid even with a weak case.
If you are not disputing the points and are just tired of hearing them, then I have a hard time following. Perhaps you are not American and are unconcerned with what you see as American woes, though the points seem to apply to anyone who isn't Chinese. If you are American, I would think repeated offenses, even after being called out on it, would incite anger, not apathy. Where I come from if someone slaps you in the face a third time, you don't just suddenly change from insulted to bored.
Americans like you always spout bullshit about China "stealing" tech without providing a shred of evidence. It's just like the current bullshit spying accusations against Huawei and ZTE, after years of trying they still can't find any proof. Meanwhile what is proven by the Snowden leaks is that it's in fact the US who's been putting backdoors in Cisco routers, Intel processors, Windows operating systems for years and years and years.
Snowden leaks & Stealing technology by Chinese companies are two different issues. It's open secret that Chinese manufacturers steal technology from west. Piracy is rampant in China, what % of Windows OS are authentic ? Why would China force companies to tie up with local business to manufacture in China ? So that local business can "Lean" manufacturing techniques from international companies. My friend works for a software company, his client is a bank in China, his client always asks for source code for the software they are working on, every time there is a bug, they would like to see source code, they are trying to get source code so that they can use that code to develop their own software.
U.S. gov't spying on citizens is a huge strawman when we are talking about state-owned tech industry strong-arming international partners to give concessions in the form of technology transfer in order to operate within China.
They are both bad practice, and I don't think anyone here was even disputing that American gov't actions like this are wrong. The difference is that stealing mounds of personal data from private citizens does nothing to prop up technological advancement, and the fact that China's tech industry IS the state, whereas U.S. companies involved in actions similar to what you described are doing so exclusively for personal wealth/influence.
China does steal tech and everybody knows it's. The only people in denial are those who support China's thievery and wants our data and innovation passed on to China.
Oh boo hoo, American corporations went to China for easy profits due to the disparity that exists in the costs of labor, environmental issues, safety rules etc. that make it more expensive to operate in western countries because of the false mantra brainwashed into our executives called "profit only matters", and employees are nothing more than commodities (human resources) subject to the lowest bidder mentality.
China rope a doped American corporations using their own greed against them by sacrificing their people and environment so the fool westerners would think they found a slave/serf paradise to make money hand over fist and because they were blinded by their immediate profit greed didn't realize what they were doing was transferring knowledge and building up China while eroding their economy and middle class back home,
now that the Chinese have been built up enough to start flexing their muscles and tell these corporations how they are going to play the game, these same "profit only matters", "cheapest is best" hero corporarists that used China so they don't have to pay American workers and the associated costs run to the taxpayer funded American courts and the President crying over the injustice of it all.
Minor point, in many cases the influence to move overseas came from shareholders and their competition.
With that being said, yes they were short-sighted and unwittingly created a monster. Now moving forward, do you simply cheer on the monster? Or do you try to do something about it? Which is more productive?
I don't know how I should feel about a company selling it's products in Iran and North Korea, but I know I still love my ZTE Axon 7 phone. It was $400, and it's been a better smart phone than any LG I've owned. As for selling products in Iran and North Korea, I think the sanctions the west places on those countries are stupid and mis-placed. There are other countries with much more brutal warlords and governments in power that the west turns a blind eye to. Most likely because there are western companies making money in those countries rather than Chinese companies.
Sure you can argue about sanctions against Iran, they're just a bogeyman used for propaganda purposes, but it'd be hard to justify any compassion against the N. Korean regime. It'd be ridiculously easy to run a smear PR campaign against any company propping up that country.
If ZTE really wanted the cash, they should've hidden it through a shell corp. Now Samsung, LG, Motorola can bring it up when trying to compete in any phone segment.
This has huge implications, not just American business but everything. Who'll buy a ZTE product (even with non-USA tech in it) if you know they're supporting Iran and N. Korea? The optics for a company would be terrible, I can't imagine AT&T retaining them in their cellphone product portfolio.
Similarly, would qualcomm risk supplying chips or doing business with them in China? How would their employees feel about supporting N. Korea? Terrible business decision. They shoud've separated the business to another chinese company owned by the gov.
If the initial fines for the violation didn't make people stop, I don't think the additional penalties from this will either.
The question is how far will the bans effects cascade across their product line. I saw an estimate elsewhere that they bought $500m of Qualcomm SoC's last year. That's a big hit for QC and having to replace all of their current/upcoming designs using QC SoCs with ones from someone else is going to be a huge it in and of itself. But with IP blocks being passed around like crazy between various vendors they could potentially find themselves locked out from other major SoCs too because of US sourced blocks in their chips.
Isn't China in general already working on a large number of technologies and varied industries that would allow the country to operate more independently from other nations' goods and services? I remember reading about a number of Chinese efforts like Red Flag Linux and the Loongson MIPS64-based CPU. One would think they were aware of their vulnerability in that regard as they were working on solutions even years ago because of the potential threats to domestic telecommunications and computing capabilities. I can't see as how this won't add a little fuel to that fire.
Kubuntu now. Last year when Imagination Technologies whose facing bankruptcy & whose forced so sell US government intervened that Imagination CPU MIPS business and GPU business must be split up & by all means how MIPS business cannot be bought by Chinese company or it's collaborative. This is with a single goal of undercutting the Chinese MIPS efforts & MIPS is still mostly British and located in Britain. Chinese how ever bought Imagination GPU business true American trust found & it's still located in the US. This is just one of examples of US uncompetitive practices. Intel ain't anymore the biggest semiconductor manufacturer & how this is only another step in ruining Qualcomm it really makes me wonder will their be anything left of the last big US monopoly aka semiconductor production capabilities in let's say next ten years. US government certainly doesn't help with ruining the famous US manufacturers.
I think it's time China start banning Cisco and other American companies in a similar manner.
It's completely absurd China hasn't applied any sanctions to the US despite them attacking so many countries and raising terrorists to overthrow so many governments. To top it off now they want to tell Chinese companies to stop trading with peaceful countries like Iran and North Korea.
Really you think North Korea is peaceful ? North Kore is the only country in last decade to test nuclear weapons. I am pretty confident that you are posting this from China. It depends on who's loosing by refusing to do business with Western companies. China is not three yet, they are not self sufficient, and they have to steal lot more before they can become self sufficient.
GOOD! We don't need anymore Chinese OEM stealing US tech and making crappy products to siphon our data and hack our network infrastructure here. This should've happened ages ago
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28 Comments
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nagi603 - Tuesday, April 17, 2018 - link
> Instead of reprimanding the employees, the company is stated to have rewarded them with full bonuses.It's not like anyone had previously showed them in the US how to operate... I mean, banks that participated in the mortgage crisis and did the exact same thing never received anything more than some semi-harsh words and bailout packages.
serendip - Tuesday, April 17, 2018 - link
But those were American banks, American insurance companies and American car companies that got bailed out after 2008. See a pattern there? ZTE is Chinese so it gets the book thrown at it.Despoiler - Tuesday, April 17, 2018 - link
You are conflating domestic economic crisis actors with international sanctions violations. Not even remotely the same thing.Alexvrb - Wednesday, April 18, 2018 - link
Not to mention the US government helped create that mortgage crisis with such legislation as the Community Reinvestment Act. It's kind of hard to punish banks for handing out loans to people they knew couldn't pay them back... when the government is the one that was pushing them to do so in the first place.Stas - Thursday, April 19, 2018 - link
yupHrel - Monday, January 28, 2019 - link
more specifically, forced by the Clinton administration*R0H1T - Tuesday, April 17, 2018 - link
Try harder! China engages not only in (state sponsored) IP theft but also making it nearly impossible for tech companies to operate in the mainland without giving up trade secrets & so much more, this on top of other restrictions like forcing JV & some such BS. As a matter of fact the Chinese revel in the art of stolen tech, many of them are also proud of it.Retycint - Tuesday, April 17, 2018 - link
Cue the one salty anti-China commenter that always appears on articles on China. At this point it's like a broken record that parrots out the same few points over and over again. "China steals tech blah blah unfair to US blah blah Western companies can't compete"BurntMyBacon - Wednesday, April 18, 2018 - link
@RetycintSo are you disputing the points or are you just tired of hearing them?
If you are disputing the points, you haven't actually presented an argument here. When one side of a dispute has no case, then the other side can appear more valid even with a weak case.
If you are not disputing the points and are just tired of hearing them, then I have a hard time following. Perhaps you are not American and are unconcerned with what you see as American woes, though the points seem to apply to anyone who isn't Chinese. If you are American, I would think repeated offenses, even after being called out on it, would incite anger, not apathy. Where I come from if someone slaps you in the face a third time, you don't just suddenly change from insulted to bored.
AiiiMT - Thursday, April 19, 2018 - link
Americans like you always spout bullshit about China "stealing" tech without providing a shred of evidence. It's just like the current bullshit spying accusations against Huawei and ZTE, after years of trying they still can't find any proof. Meanwhile what is proven by the Snowden leaks is that it's in fact the US who's been putting backdoors in Cisco routers, Intel processors, Windows operating systems for years and years and years.Hypocrisy much?
raghu8912 - Thursday, April 19, 2018 - link
Snowden leaks & Stealing technology by Chinese companies are two different issues.It's open secret that Chinese manufacturers steal technology from west.
Piracy is rampant in China, what % of Windows OS are authentic ?
Why would China force companies to tie up with local business to manufacture in China ?
So that local business can "Lean" manufacturing techniques from international companies.
My friend works for a software company, his client is a bank in China, his client always asks for source code for the software they are working on, every time there is a bug, they would like to see source code, they are trying to get source code so that they can use that code to develop their own software.
FullmetalTitan - Friday, April 20, 2018 - link
U.S. gov't spying on citizens is a huge strawman when we are talking about state-owned tech industry strong-arming international partners to give concessions in the form of technology transfer in order to operate within China.They are both bad practice, and I don't think anyone here was even disputing that American gov't actions like this are wrong. The difference is that stealing mounds of personal data from private citizens does nothing to prop up technological advancement, and the fact that China's tech industry IS the state, whereas U.S. companies involved in actions similar to what you described are doing so exclusively for personal wealth/influence.
NeuralNexus - Sunday, April 22, 2018 - link
China does steal tech and everybody knows it's. The only people in denial are those who support China's thievery and wants our data and innovation passed on to China.NeuralNexus - Sunday, April 22, 2018 - link
China in fact steals and it time they pay the place for that thievery.1prophet - Wednesday, April 18, 2018 - link
Oh boo hoo, American corporations went to China for easy profits due to the disparity that exists in the costs of labor, environmental issues, safety rules etc. that make it more expensive to operate in western countries because of the false mantra brainwashed into our executives called "profit only matters", and employees are nothing more than commodities (human resources) subject to the lowest bidder mentality.China rope a doped American corporations using their own greed against them by sacrificing their people and environment so the fool westerners would think they found a slave/serf paradise to make money hand over fist and because they were blinded by their immediate profit greed didn't realize what they were doing was transferring knowledge and building up China while eroding their economy and middle class back home,
now that the Chinese have been built up enough to start flexing their muscles and tell these corporations how they are going to play the game, these same "profit only matters", "cheapest is best" hero corporarists that used China so they don't have to pay American workers and the associated costs run to the taxpayer funded American courts and the President crying over the injustice of it all.
Alexvrb - Wednesday, April 18, 2018 - link
Minor point, in many cases the influence to move overseas came from shareholders and their competition.With that being said, yes they were short-sighted and unwittingly created a monster. Now moving forward, do you simply cheer on the monster? Or do you try to do something about it? Which is more productive?
knightspawn1138 - Tuesday, April 17, 2018 - link
I don't know how I should feel about a company selling it's products in Iran and North Korea, but I know I still love my ZTE Axon 7 phone. It was $400, and it's been a better smart phone than any LG I've owned. As for selling products in Iran and North Korea, I think the sanctions the west places on those countries are stupid and mis-placed. There are other countries with much more brutal warlords and governments in power that the west turns a blind eye to. Most likely because there are western companies making money in those countries rather than Chinese companies.webdoctors - Tuesday, April 17, 2018 - link
Sure you can argue about sanctions against Iran, they're just a bogeyman used for propaganda purposes, but it'd be hard to justify any compassion against the N. Korean regime. It'd be ridiculously easy to run a smear PR campaign against any company propping up that country.If ZTE really wanted the cash, they should've hidden it through a shell corp. Now Samsung, LG, Motorola can bring it up when trying to compete in any phone segment.
Alexvrb - Wednesday, April 18, 2018 - link
"Iran is just a bogeyman"*Fifteen years later Iran nukes a neighboring country*
"Damnit why didn't anyone DO anything about Iran?? I was there calling for action the whole time honest!"
webdoctors - Tuesday, April 17, 2018 - link
This has huge implications, not just American business but everything. Who'll buy a ZTE product (even with non-USA tech in it) if you know they're supporting Iran and N. Korea? The optics for a company would be terrible, I can't imagine AT&T retaining them in their cellphone product portfolio.Similarly, would qualcomm risk supplying chips or doing business with them in China? How would their employees feel about supporting N. Korea? Terrible business decision. They shoud've separated the business to another chinese company owned by the gov.
DanNeely - Tuesday, April 17, 2018 - link
If the initial fines for the violation didn't make people stop, I don't think the additional penalties from this will either.The question is how far will the bans effects cascade across their product line. I saw an estimate elsewhere that they bought $500m of Qualcomm SoC's last year. That's a big hit for QC and having to replace all of their current/upcoming designs using QC SoCs with ones from someone else is going to be a huge it in and of itself. But with IP blocks being passed around like crazy between various vendors they could potentially find themselves locked out from other major SoCs too because of US sourced blocks in their chips.
sonny73n - Wednesday, April 18, 2018 - link
@webdictorsKeep the politic bullshit to yourself. People like you only support selling weapons to Saudi Arabia and the likes.
PeachNCream - Tuesday, April 17, 2018 - link
Isn't China in general already working on a large number of technologies and varied industries that would allow the country to operate more independently from other nations' goods and services? I remember reading about a number of Chinese efforts like Red Flag Linux and the Loongson MIPS64-based CPU. One would think they were aware of their vulnerability in that regard as they were working on solutions even years ago because of the potential threats to domestic telecommunications and computing capabilities. I can't see as how this won't add a little fuel to that fire.ZolaIII - Tuesday, April 17, 2018 - link
Kubuntu now. Last year when Imagination Technologies whose facing bankruptcy & whose forced so sell US government intervened that Imagination CPU MIPS business and GPU business must be split up & by all means how MIPS business cannot be bought by Chinese company or it's collaborative. This is with a single goal of undercutting the Chinese MIPS efforts & MIPS is still mostly British and located in Britain. Chinese how ever bought Imagination GPU business true American trust found & it's still located in the US. This is just one of examples of US uncompetitive practices. Intel ain't anymore the biggest semiconductor manufacturer & how this is only another step in ruining Qualcomm it really makes me wonder will their be anything left of the last big US monopoly aka semiconductor production capabilities in let's say next ten years. US government certainly doesn't help with ruining the famous US manufacturers.AiiiMT - Thursday, April 19, 2018 - link
I think it's time China start banning Cisco and other American companies in a similar manner.It's completely absurd China hasn't applied any sanctions to the US despite them attacking so many countries and raising terrorists to overthrow so many governments. To top it off now they want to tell Chinese companies to stop trading with peaceful countries like Iran and North Korea.
raghu8912 - Thursday, April 19, 2018 - link
Really you think North Korea is peaceful ?North Kore is the only country in last decade to test nuclear weapons.
I am pretty confident that you are posting this from China.
It depends on who's loosing by refusing to do business with Western companies.
China is not three yet, they are not self sufficient, and they have to steal lot more before they can become self sufficient.
NeuralNexus - Sunday, April 22, 2018 - link
GOOD! We don't need anymore Chinese OEM stealing US tech and making crappy products to siphon our data and hack our network infrastructure here. This should've happened ages agoVinayancho - Monday, April 23, 2018 - link
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