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  • AshlayW - Monday, June 10, 2019 - link

    These are likely to demolish Intel's new Ice-Lake iGPU, the 3700U comparison made was unfair with the AMD part using single-channel memory.
  • danielfranklin - Monday, June 10, 2019 - link

    You have a lot of faith in old architectures and a 10% clock bump with no additional memory bandwith.
    If Intel cant beat this with their new huge GPUs and LPDDR4x we are in trouble.
  • wilsonkf - Monday, June 10, 2019 - link

    Vega 11 of desktop APU is by no mean weaker than Ice-Lake iGPU. Intel's test on mobile APU with handicapped memory config does not mean a thing for desktop.
  • TheUnhandledException - Monday, June 10, 2019 - link

    Well given that Intel totally biased the benchmark (60% higher memory bandwidth, 30% higher SSD sequential reads, 70% higher SSD random reads) and despite that only got 96% to 116% the performance of the last gen Ryzen APU AMD doesn't need much to win real world.
  • Jorgp2 - Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - link

    The APU was running just as AMD designed it.
  • 0ldman79 - Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - link

    So it was dual channel then?
  • notashill - Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - link

    https://twitter.com/ryanshrout/status/113296065573...

    According to Intel, yes.
  • 0ldman79 - Sunday, June 16, 2019 - link

    Thanks for clearing that up.
  • azfacea - Monday, June 10, 2019 - link

    what intel GPUs. you mean the 10nm parts that dont exist. Bigfoot is more likely to surface than intel 10nm (not counting marketing stunts and fake launches)
  • Santoval - Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - link

    Ice Lake's iGPUs might work OK (not all of them, only the 48 & 64-shader parts), but bear in mind that it was reported that Ice Lake-U will have a mere 3 - 4% higher single thread performance than the equivalent Whiskey Lake-U by none other than Intel themselves. So the true value is surely even lower.

    Ice Lake-U has a modestly higher IPC than Whiskey Lake-U - we do not know how modest exactly, since Intel only compared it to the IPC of the ... original Skylake of 2015. However Intel's crappy 10nm+ node still has severe thermal and clock issues. So the node's very low clocks ate all (or nearly all) the IPC gains.

    Which is why Intel focused on iGPU performance, AI performance and ... "Wi-Fi performance" in their Computex presentation and basically buried the CPU performance in a single graph where they compared Ice Lake-U (along with Whiskey Lake-U and the predecessors) to... Broadlake.

    It is also why there is still no word about when mid and full power Ice Lake CPUs will be released (they probably won't - word is they'll need to wait for Intel's 10nm++ node, i.e. the Tiger Lake release) and why Comet Lake (up to -U at least, despite the overlap with Ice Lake-U) was introduced. No matter how Intel tried to mask and decorate it, they still have serious 10nm node issues, largely due to the extreme complexity they introduced to that node.
  • 0ldman79 - Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - link

    The part that bothers me is Intel has always *had* decent iGPU chips, they just sell the neutered iGPU on all models except for a couple of high end i7 parts.

    Why in the hell would anyone run an iGPU on a high end i7 part?

    They need the complete iGPU on the *midrange* parts at the very least. It's stupid as hell.

    They have been able to release an i5 with a lot better performance for years now. They just don't. The midrange is where the iGPU needs to be unlocked, not the low end or the top SKU.
  • danielfranklin - Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - link

    How exactly does Whiskey Lake's architecture differ in IPC over Skylake?
    Its the same CPU cores...
    Icelake will certainly have a higher IPC than 3-4% over any previous Intel chips.
  • extide - Wednesday, June 12, 2019 - link

    Whiskey lake uses Skylake cores -- they are identical. So there comparison is correct.
  • Samus - Wednesday, June 12, 2019 - link

    2018 is old architecture?
  • IntelUser2000 - Monday, June 10, 2019 - link

    Intel Icelake GPUs are only for mobile so it doesn't matter, and even if they had a desktop version the Ryzen APU will still win.

    But,
    if you were following things closely, they said it wasn't single channel memory, and the 3700U setup had a proper 2x4 dual channel setup. Since Intel footnotes just had "8GB memory" people assumed Intel was using single 8GB stick.
  • TheUnhandledException - Monday, June 10, 2019 - link

    Yeah the single channel claim was wrong but the AMD system with less gen APU was still running with less memory bandwidth and an inferior SSD. Despite that it was essentially even. Depending on the benchmark the Intel system was 96% to 116% of the AMD system. Intel stacked the deck and it still came out even. Throw in a 10% clock boost for 3000 series and a real apples to apples comparison and AMD will come out on top.
  • jeremyshaw - Monday, June 10, 2019 - link

    Lower memory bandwidth, but with much better latency, somewhere on the order of a magnitude. That is the LPDDR4x tradeoff. To be fair to Intel, that is also the slowest LPDDR4 one could find.
  • azfacea - Monday, June 10, 2019 - link

    picasso APU are real, you can buy now in laptops, and desktop on july 7. Intel Gen11 graphics is a slide. not a physical product. I can put all kinds of fart in slideshows tooooooooo
  • StevoLincolnite - Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - link

    GPU's tend to prefer bandwidth over latency though.
    AMD's Ryzen notebooks with 2400mhz DDR4 in dual channel isn't doing it any favors.
  • scineram - Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - link

    That's AMD's problem. It's what they spport.
  • Cooe - Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - link

    Yeah... no. They officially support up to 2933MHz and there are countless models that ship with 2666MHz standard. They specifically chose a model with slow 2400MHz memory to make the disparity look as artificially inflated as possible.
  • jabbadap - Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - link

    Nope. 3700u is specced for 2400MHz ddr4 and that was what intel used. Using higher memory as than is OC out of spec.

    https://www.amd.com/en/products/apu/amd-ryzen-7-37...
  • jgraham11 - Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - link

    The comparison Intel made with their Ice-Lake iGPU were misleading at best. Memory clocked at 3700MHz vs the AMDs stock config (2400MHz). And even then it only just beat it.

    Is everyone else tired of every Intel demonstration: Turns into an exercise of finding how did they either cheated the test by using massively overclocked memory or using an industrial cooler (and forgetting to mention it) or by basing their results on Systmark (a known, made for Intel chips benchmark, that no one else accepts as being accurate).

    I'm just tired of the constant deception...
  • HStewart - Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - link

    You got to remember Ice Lake has 2 read and 2 store registers while Zen 2 has only 2 real and 1 store registers.
  • HStewart - Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - link

    Skylake also only has 2 read and 1 stores
  • Xyler94 - Wednesday, June 12, 2019 - link

    And that does... what exactly?
  • Oxford Guy - Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - link

    Boring. I would be impressed by a part that doesn't just use DDR4, which delivers quality bandwidth to a bandwidth-starved GPU.

    I would be impressed by more than a paltry 4 cores and a few Vega cores.
  • Cooe - Wednesday, June 12, 2019 - link

    What you want would cost more than an enthusiast CPU and thus have a tinnnnnnny market. HBM2 costs a damn fortune, and you should already know that. Stupid post is stupid.
  • Oxford Guy - Friday, June 14, 2019 - link

    AMD is making an HBM APU for China already.

    Your response is ignorant.
  • 0ldman79 - Sunday, June 16, 2019 - link

    Not sure what all the drama is about.

    It beat the Vega by less than 10% across the board on Intel chosen benchmarks.

    When results are that close cherry picking the games can generally skew the results in either direction.

    We'll see when the reviewers get them in their hands. It's gonna be close.
  • awehring - Monday, June 10, 2019 - link

    "A new feature coming to the APUs is support for 4K protected video streaming, such as Netflix 4K. This is a feature that has been missed on the previous generation, especially as AMD’s APUs have found their way into a number of small form factor systems and HTPC builds."

    Does this mean, that the last generation APUs don't get this feature with a driver update? Would be annoying.
  • Lord of the Bored - Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - link

    It requires hardware features. The movie companies are deathly afraid of us ripping decompressed movies straight out of RAM, or off the PCIE bus as it moves between the video card and the processor. There are amazingly onerous restrictions in place on the hardware because of it.
  • milkywayer - Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - link

    Not sure why Studios or streaming companies force protection like that. Any new movie or show is ripped and available for download on countless mediums, torrents for one. This is just adding to costs of CPUs.
  • TheUnhandledException - Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - link

    Because they are idiots. Despite many decades of proof that DRM doesn't work they think hey you know what a little more DRM might work next time.
  • mode_13h - Monday, June 10, 2019 - link

    There's a lot of win, here. I just wish they either enable ECC-support or give us a way to buy the equivalent Pro version, outside of an assembled system. I want to upgrade my home fileserver, and I'd rather not put a dGPU in it.
  • LiviuTM - Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - link

    I would be very surprise if a PRO version isn't in the making.
  • mode_13h - Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - link

    Me too, but we need to be able to purchase them!
  • SaturnusDK - Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - link

    They're been out for two months. Launch date of the Ryzen Pro APUs was April 18th. Granted that's the mobile range.
  • schujj07 - Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - link

    I just ordered a couple HP Elitebook 705 G4 mini's and they come with 2400G/GE Pros.
  • mode_13h - Wednesday, June 12, 2019 - link

    My point is that, so far, you cannot buy standalone Ryzen Pro APUs, for desktops. They're only shipping inside pre-built systems. That needs to change.
  • Cooe - Wednesday, June 12, 2019 - link

    Afaik, like every other Ryzen processor, they have ECC support WITHOUT needing to buy/use the "Pro" version.
  • thevoiceofreason - Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - link

    This is such a minor bump that might as well be a refresh. I might honestly grab 2400g on sale instead when they clear inventory. Meanwhile, consoles allegedly get a custom part with Navi already.
  • Valantar - Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - link

    "Already" = fall/winter 2020. No new consoles before then. Remember that silicon design cycles are many-year processes.

    There will no doubt be 7nm Zen2 APUs before then. Hopefully they'll make a proper high-end MCM version with a small Navi chiplet, but they'll have to make that Navi die first. I'm hoping for that in early-to-mid 2020. The main hindrance for this might be mobile - MCM packages are thick and ill suited for thin-and-light laptops, meaning that they might need to continue the current dual silicon solution, with a monolithic APU die for the low end/ultrathin segment and MCM reserved for higher end SKUs and thicker laptops. Hopefully "small Navi" is designed so that it'll fit on a Matisse substrate so that we can get the long dreamt-of powerhouse APUs.
  • psychobriggsy - Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - link

    Yeah, a minor bump, on paper the GPU is now touching 2 TFLOPS in the 3400G but the memory bandwidth is likely a limit here.

    The 95W cooler in box, and implied overclocking friendliness is interesting however.
  • xrror - Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - link

    Protected 4K to me as a consumer? DRM

    Whoever is first to delivering 4K @ $400 will be a PC video card winner.

    Mind you, VR headsets really need like 8K rendering specs to be "no questions asked, it just f*cking works" like say a "VR appliance."

    Hey AMD.

    Your mission - no matter what it takes. Make an APU that sacrifices everything for 8K/VR rendering.

    Even if you have to strip the CPU part down to a triple core, beef the living (tar) outta the GFX part to give us an "unbalanced" APU.

    It's not going to happen this or even next product cycle, but give us a 4500 or 5000 series APU with enough graphics grunt to laugh off 8K rendering (and in turn, 2K 'per eye' on ANY VR headset) and enough IPC improvement that we don't care you only have 4 cpu cores @ 200% IPC from 4 years ago despite the rest of the die being a bad ass mofo GPU block.

    Yea, fuck productivity. In my world, affordable AMD VR appliance IS PRODUCTIVITY.

    "In the future, your home is run by AMD"
  • patel21 - Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - link

    Whow, are you from state where pot is legal ?
  • 29a - Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - link

    Sounds more like alcohol idiocy to me.
  • ET - Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - link

    I liked that AMD turned the 3400G into an overclocking-friendly CPU, with a better cooler, TIM and even automatic overclocking. That's a nice way to add some value and excitement to what is basically a boring refresh.
  • Cooe - Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - link

    The 3200G is likely soldered as well. The person from Chip Hell who got early retail samples tried to delid one and killed it because the IHS was actually soldered down.
  • neblogai - Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - link

    Just to make sure: did AMD say anything about these chips actually being Zen+, and with IPC increase? Because, I don't think Zen+ was ever mentioned in mobile Picasso launch, and it is not mentioned in 3400G/3200G slide. So, these APUs could be 12nm remake of RR, and with soldered heatspreader (all that helping higher clocks and better temps)- but with the same IPC.
  • Cooe - Wednesday, June 12, 2019 - link

    Yes, AMD has explicitly said "Zen+", and at this tech day they had direct access to the engineers, so if it wasn't Zen+, someone whould have corrected everyone.
  • eastcoast_pete - Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - link

    Thanks Ian! Like you, I have a soft spot (plus a self-serving interest, in the market for one) for these APUs. I have three questions: 1. Does media playback now support 10bit HDR (or better, HDR+)? 2. Does the build-in support for streaming 4K with HDCP 2.x avoid the need for the additional chiplet on the motherboard that one needs with Intel's 8th/9th gen CPUs? And, 3., any changes in the L2 and L3 cache sizes compared to the 2400G?
    I wonder how much the smallish cache of the 2200G/2400G APUs holds not just the CPU, but especially the iGPU back. AFAIK, CPU and GPU share the L3 cache in these APUs, and those 11 VEGA units are likely to run into memory speed limits if the amount of (shared) cache they can use is as small as it was for the 2400G.
  • Santoval - Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - link

    Regarding #3, due to the switch to Zen+ the cache sizes are identical, however the latency of all three caches was markedly improved. This is where the extra IPC is derived from.
  • eastcoast_pete - Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - link

    Also, bravo AMD for (finally) using metal TIM at least for the 3400G, and (for the same chip) now including the much better wraith spire heatsink! Both are noteworthy changes!
  • Oxford Guy - Friday, June 14, 2019 - link

    Too bad the underlying chip is boring.

    Until DDR4 isn't such a bottleneck, for example...
  • Dragonstongue - Wednesday, June 12, 2019 - link

    maybe AMD was "nice enough" this go around and will allow their APU to get a full "width" pci-e link for GP use instead of the slight bottleneck via last go around A and B hopefully this time around there is none of this $99 chip often enough actually being faster and better game performance as it's core was not pushed to the very edge of what it can reasonably do via it's TDP limits (total power for everything has to be split on the fly cannot be an easy thing.
  • Einy0 - Wednesday, June 12, 2019 - link

    I still can't believe how they soiled this website with these auto-play videos! Anand must be heart broken at how quickly Purch destroyed what he worked so hard and so long to build.
  • Qasar - Thursday, June 13, 2019 - link

    sadly.. that is why i use an adblocker now... the ads are just so bad, it takes A LOT longer to load any page on here.
  • infaz - Sunday, May 3, 2020 - link

    Is Ryzen 5 3400g supporting netflix 4k HDR? or else do you need to have a Radeon card for that?

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