The Console Gaming Demographic

by Anand Lal Shimpi on 11/14/2005 10:11 AM EST
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  • Dmitheon - Thursday, November 17, 2005 - link

    The long and short of it is that, as we all know, consoles, at launch are sold at cost. Place like Gamestop/EB, who's life's blood is video games, if they sell you an xbox360 +1 game, or some other kid 1 game sans system, they're making the exact same profit. If their revenue doesn't go up by order of magnitude, which it won't, they're not going to pull down the same kind of profit they would on a non-launch year. Sure their revenue will go up, but profit is what matters at the end of the day. By creating these accessory rich bundles, they're claiming some of that profit back. Your best buys, walmarts, and market specific retailer isn't as hurt by this because they're also getting profits from TVs, DVDs, towels, what-have you. The packages are primarily in pre-order and once the system becomes commonly available, the ridicules packages tend to disappear.
  • Bubbacub - Friday, November 25, 2005 - link

    I think MS has no real intention of having every family plunge 700 dollars (and most probably 700 pounds in the uk!) on a 360. they are just milking the initial minority of addicted gamers who have less of a life than they have disposable income. in a short time the price will drop to become a realistic present for kids. Next years chrimbo will be when kids get their next gen console as a present
  • Marsumane - Thursday, November 17, 2005 - link

    I totally agree with your opinion. This factor has been on my mind for the past couple years actually. I'm "only" 21 and I KNOW that my total gift cost of what was baught for me didn't even total $700 and that was only a few yrs ago. My parents debated on the price of a $150 GF3 my junior yr in high school. My entire computer I built a year and a half ago wasn't even this price WITH my 9800p. The prices of consoles are becomming so huge. I blame the parents for actually making it possible for these consoles to be priced so high due to their willingness to purchase these for their child. In my opinion, $300 for a non-crippled (has the HD) console with 2 controlers and a game or atleast a demo disk is much more appropriate as compared to today's offerings.
  • fr8mvr - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link

    Well, I am an older gamer- 47. I play Xbox live with a group of friends from around the world. I purchased a presale off Ebay for 500 dollars- premium edition. Not quite the 700 but all things considered about 80 dollars over list without standing in line for 10 hours.
    At least with a console vs a PC, 4 people can play off one TV... My kids and there friends-using a 'Live" connection can game together wether they are in the same room or not. I have oftten gamed with the neighborhood teens :)

    In the long run the market is just not for kids but adults as well.. and with the 360 you have the bonus of using it as a medi server--Mp3's streamed to my audio system..
    So for what you get, 399 is not much..700 seems like big amount but that is bundled with 3-4 games an extra controller--
  • Gannon - Thursday, November 17, 2005 - link

    You're right about the games and extra controller.

    But they are right that gaming is getting pricey. I bought my first NES for around $250 CAD when it first came out, and all it came with was mario, duckhunt, 2 NES controllers + the light gun zapper. Thats 2 games, 2 controllers and a light gun.

    But consoles only look cheap on paper, a PS2 with 2 memory cards + 2 controllers, still sets you back $30 for another controller and perhaps $50 for two memory cards, plus the PS2 only usually came with one game or NO game, and at $299 when it first came out it would easily put over $400 bucks.

    Most game console releases "seem" cheap until you add in memory cards, controllers, accessories and games.
  • Pythias - Thursday, November 17, 2005 - link

    The same could be said of pcs and the fact that you have to upgrade your video card to keep playing current games. Not to mention ram and cpu.
  • fr8mvr - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link

    Well, I am an older gamer- 47. I play Xbox live with a group of friends from around the world. I purchased a presale off Ebay for 500 dollars- premium edition. Not quite the 700 but all things considered about 80 dollars over list without standing in line for 10 hours.
    At least with a console vs a PC, 4 people can play off one TV... My kids and there friends-using a 'Live" connection can game together wether they are in the same room or not. I have oftten gamed with the neighborhood teens :)

    In the long run the market is just not for kids but adults as well.. and with the 360 you have the bonus of using it as a medi server--Mp3's streamed to my audio system..
    So for what you get, 399 is not much..700 seems like big amount but that is bundled with 3-4 games an extra controller--
  • Leomarg02 - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link

    I feel that prices are getting out of hand for consoles because it wasn't long ago when a bundle for a PS2 with a few games and extra controller cost you less than $400 and it is still able to play good games. But now you need to flesh out the wallet so much that you think and even consider I need two jobs or my gaming addiction is going to kill me. Now I also said no because if you think to consider graphics cards 7800GTX and beyond on PCs are almost as much as the xbox 360 today so if you factor that in you might be getting a good deal on value. Like one of the guys said graphic requirements for games are starting to increase in higher increments every quarter of the year but yet you can play a console game and not see much loss in you wallet. If you think of it sometimes it seems like PC gaming is a novelty or it could be dead when next-gen consoles come out but it is there for a reason. Most advanced and hardcore players are PC gamers and probably is meant for them but it shouldn't be that way. It shouldn't require you to buy a game and a new top of the line pc with top graphics just to play a new game. Most of you know casual gamers buy console which I find nothing wrong with and they are getting good value because for example with the Xbox 360 you can stream videos and pictures and it can serve as a DVD player as well which much people consider a more than just a gaming machine. It's been around since the PS2 and it still works well even better now with higher resolutions. That's why it's such tempting to go with the simple life and head to consoles instead of PC. In the end it's a matter of personal interest and your decision. I would never have the money or chance to get a $700 bundle when I was younger but people did and that's what started this chain of supply and demand.
  • JarredWalton - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link

    My feeling on PCs is that a gaming PC is really just an office PC with an expensive GPU. $400 for an Xbox 360? Well, that same $400 turns an office PC with 1GB of RAM, 250GB HDD, and a moderately fast CPU into a gaming powerhouse. If you're looking to build a complete computer *just* for gaming, yes, it's ludicrously expensive. If you're looking for a computer for other tasks, and you're thinking about getting a console as well for gaming... $400 almost buys a 7800GTX, which can run any game at 1280x720 (same as Xbox) with no problems at all.
  • tivo - Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - link

    "Or am I totally off base here and is $700 just not considered a lot of money anymore? Hmm, if it is the latter option then that would make this the very first "I remember when _____ used to cost _____ in my day" post of my life. Not good."

    Ya' know you're getting older when you find yourself saying phrases you've heard your parents and grandparents say your whole life!

    We're gettin' old Anand! :-D

    -Tivo
  • Pythias - Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - link

    quote:

    Ya' know you're getting older when you find yourself saying phrases you've heard your parents and grandparents say your whole life!


    Not old! Responsible! It one thing to say $700 is nothing when you're a kid with a disposable income, its quite another when you're trying to make mortgage payments.

    :)
  • JarredWalton - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link

    You wanna talk responsible? Well, as a decrepit 32 year old, I have to say that there's no way I would let my child play most of the games on consoles these days. Xbox and PS both target the 13+ year old market as far as I'm concerned, so it does become a bit more feasible for someone in that age range to buy one.

    I bought my first PC when I was 16 - worked all summer and spent $1500 on a 286! It's a matter of priorities, and my priority was having a good computer. Of course, I learned a lot more by owning a computer than anyone will learn by purchasing a console. DOS, programming, how to use word processors, modems, etc. were all things I learned by purchasing a PC when I was 16. What do you learn from a console? How to play games. I would much rather buy a teenager a moderate PC than a game console. At least then I could let them use the internet to do research.

    Scary thought: in the next few weeks, nearly a billion dollars will be spent on Xbox 360 and accessories! Ouch.
  • Pythias - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link



    quote:

    What do you learn from a console? How to play games. I would much rather buy a teenager a moderate PC than a game console. At least then I could let them use the internet to do research.




    It may have slipped your notice. I already own a pc. How else would I post here? I can do everything I need to do with it without purchasing a video card and 856568907560897 megs of ram to play todays games on it. The ever increasing hardware requirements and power consumption is getting out of hand.

    $1400 msrp for two 7800 gtx 512's in sli? Will they be capable of playing the newest games in 5 years?

    quote:

    Xbox and PS both target the 13+ year old market as far as I'm concerned, so it does become a bit more feasible for someone in that age range to buy one


    How so? How are pc games more mature than console games? Do I have to be 13 to enjoy the Jak and Daxter series that my wife and I spent countless hours Playing?

    Besides, what if our OS of choice doesnt support gaming?

  • JarredWalton - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link

    I actually wasn't commmenting on you specifically - just playing off the "responsible" part. Of course we all have PCs. We're not talking about buying Xbox 360's for ourselves, though; we're talking about younger kids getting these as a present. I would (MUCH!) sooner buy a PC for my child than a console. I don't know what you're talking about with the "maturity" part - my point was that Xbox and PS2 are *too* mature (in the majority of games) for a young child; that's why they would make more sense for teenagers.

    If I were to buy a console, I'd seriously consider the Nintendo products. Why? It's really a matter of game content. Most popular PC/Xbox/PS2 games get ported to all platforms. How many really popular Nintendo games get ported to another platform? The games are also generally more kid-oriented. I don't particularly care for them, but I already think PC gaming is superior to Xbox and PS, so why get an inferior platform that will have most of the same games (or at least the same style of games)?

    My take: FPS? Get a PC with keyboard and mouse. RTS/Strategy? PC - no competition whatsoever. RPG? I hate console RPGs, but I like the PC fare: Baldur's Gate, Fallout, NeverWinter Nights, etc. That's personal preference - some people like the Japanese RPGs - but that's how I view the market. I hate MMORPGs as well, but those that like them are almost required to go with a PC. As for the areas where consoles dominate: sports games? I haven't played a computer sports game that I liked in decades! The same goes for the Beat 'em Up genre: how many Street Fighter clones do we need that have the same old gameplay with better graphics/sound?

    Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Mine is that there's little in the realm of console gaming that I really like. I tried Halo/Halo 2 on an Xbox and couldn't get past the awful controls that the gamepad provides.
  • Pythias - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link

    quote:

    I actually wasn't commmenting on you specifically - just playing off the "responsible" part.



    My apologies, Jarred. I jumped the gun. If it makes any difference, I wasnt attacking you. I got exited and took a defensive tone. If I have offended, please forgive me.
  • JarredWalton - Thursday, November 17, 2005 - link

    NP - I'm pretty laid back, and figured there was a misunderstanding. Basically, I was thinking, "Responsible? Hell, anyone responsible wouldn't dare put most Xbox/PS2 games in the hands of children under 12!" I don't think violent games are going to turn a person into a killer, but there are certain topics I'd just as soon not discuss any sooner than necessary - sort of like why you wouldn't show porn to a 5 year old. LOL
  • Pythias - Thursday, November 17, 2005 - link

    I cant spreak for xbox as I havent owned one but, there are plenty of games on ps2 that dont glamourize thuggery. I go console because bsd/unix/linux dont support many games natively.

    The "responsibility" comment was directed towards they guy who said Anand was a geezer because he questioned spending scads of money on a console :P I was merely suggesting that maybe Anand being a family man, had other priorities. Fiscal responsibility, not moral resposibility, though I'm sure he's that as well.

    I promise to take my prozac and be more thoughtful in my postings. =D
  • Bubbacub - Friday, November 25, 2005 - link

    nice to see everyone being civil and not trolling, i like anandtech ;-)
  • AaronAxvig - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link

    quote:

    Besides, what if our OS of choice doesnt support gaming?


    Well, then you should exercise your right of choice and choose an OS that does support gaming. Duh.
  • BenSkywalker - Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - link

    As a father of five with four gamers(assuming number five will also be when he gets a bit older) picking the kids up consoles isn't that big of a deal. First thing is you never, ever go in on a bundle deal. If you go to an EB B&M you should be able to land yourself a pre order on the hardware alone, at least I assume that most people can as I have no problem with that at all(although, the manager of my local EB can tell you my phone number and where I live off the top of his head so YMMV). Assuming that isn't an option you revert to the old fashioned way of picking up a launch system- camping.

    All of the major general retail B&Ms still have first come first serve console launches, so you get down to your local Wal-Mart a good ten hours or so before the time they go on sale and get in line. Good way to socialize with fellow geeks and you can pick your kids up a 360 base model for $299 or the proper model for $399. That really isn't that much to spend on a gift for a kid for Christmas if they are big into gaming- they will be using regularly for the next five years or so and as a parent I can tell you with certainty you will be EXTREMELY hard pressed to find any other gift that that is true of. Most of the time, if a small handful of Santa's last batch is in use by June it is a shocker. When looked at from that perspective dropping $400 for a single gift really isn't a bad idea at all.
  • punko - Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - link

    As a father of two, there is no way I would spend $700 bucks on a single (even if considered combined) present.

    This pricing is just for the nutcases that can afford it. Wait until the price comes down and you're in. Mind you, I have no intention of ever getting a console for the boys. If they want one so bad, they'll have to get it themselves, but they'd also have to count on buying a TV as well, because there is no way they're strapping that thing to my TV (its dedicated to hockey, and whatever mindless home improvement shows the wife watches)

    As a note, I won't pay $700 for a video card, even if it is my hobby. I keep one step back from the bleeding edge and do just fine, thank you. My CPU is 4 years old, and everything works just fine (it is near the end of its life, though). I've made 2 video card upgrades over that time, both times for less than $250.

    "Gaming" means boardgames (not the old crap like Monopoly and Risk, but real ones that actually cause you to think) and PC games. I won't support a habit based on that repetitive pap that shows up on consoles.
  • overclockingoodness - Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - link

    Goes on to show how much American parents care for their children, and by that I don't mean not buying them a $700 present.

    quote:

    ...but they'd also have to count on buying a TV as well, because there is no way they're strapping that thing to my TV...


    I don't know about you, but that's just disturbing. Right from the beginning, you are seeding differences in your children.

    quote:


    "Gaming" means boardgames (not the old crap like Monopoly and Risk, but real ones that actually cause you to think) and PC games. I won't support a habit based on that repetitive pap that shows up on consoles.


    Double standards, eh? So PC Games make you think, but console games don't. Well, that's a verifiable theory. Just admit the fact that you can't afford the latest gadgets (neither can I, by the way) instead of hiding behind stupid excuses.
  • Bubbacub - Friday, November 25, 2005 - link

    he has a point, console gaming is generally a bit dumbed down compared to pc gaming (admitedly the first xbox put the ps2 to shame for games which required more than button bashing)
  • glennpratt - Monday, November 14, 2005 - link

    I do hope you see the irony here, when the cost of playing latest and greatest games on PC is approaching astronomical. Not to mention the ever moving target (I can play the latest Xbox game on my 4 year old Xbox, but can I play the latest PC game on my 4 year old video card? NOPE.)

    Another point, kids are getting games much younger because there is much more choice in the system. You can still get Dreamcasts and N64 at you local game store for chump change, so really young kids are just no longer the forefront of gaming, which is a good thing IMO.
  • George Powell - Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - link

    I do agree but only to a point.

    One of the things in PC gaming that has required a lot more power from the graphics card is resolution. Remember that a console only has one resolution, and that is very low. Also a console only ever has to acheive a certain frame rate - 30fps.

    If we still played games at 640 x 480 then we would not need such powerful and expensive setups.

    High definition for TV (as in resolution) has already been achievable on PC monitors for many years.
  • BenSkywalker - Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - link

    You know the 360 runs 1280x720 w4x AA right? The PS3 is going to run 1920x1080. Even the current gen has some high def games, next gen it is standard for all titles not headed for a Nintendo console.
  • AxemanFU - Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - link

    I think it's funny that 6 months ago, they were talking about how these new gen consoles were goign to crush the life out of PC graphics cards, and make PC gaming obsolete, and already, before they're even released, we have a new generation of grpahics cards out from the 2 big boys that are signifigantly more powerful than that of these new consoles, and they're only going to go up from there. By 2 years into these console's lifespans, they'll have obsolete graphics relative to a PC, but because that's all there is with the console, the programmers will innovatively push what they have to work with to the max. Yes, the nex gen consoles will be very nice, and also very expensive, but in a couple of years a budget PC video card will put them to total shame grpahically. It's always been this way, and until they make more upgradeable consoles (coming with the complete merging of consoles and PCs in the next generation after this one I imagine), then the console will always start to look dated after a year or two. Frankly, I was never really impressed with the original xbox graphics either, because I was seeing PC game demos and hardware already putting it to shame back before it was released as well. 1 thing for consoles: They always work and almost never crash, and you don't have to worry about compatability and upgrading, cause the games will never push the hardware beyond practical capability. Now if they could just get a good mouse/keyboard solution for us REAL FPS players..... :)
  • Gannon - Thursday, November 17, 2005 - link

    In my opinion games have been hitting the law of diminishing returns for me for the last few years. I've been gaming for 15 years ever since 1985-87 since the NES days. Gaming in almost every arena has been getting less exciting as we get sequel-itis out the ying-yang. Sure we get excited about new consoles and games, but I really do wonder after we get this round of consoles and their games just how excited *we'll really be* or if it will be more of a Pyrrhic victory (A victory achieved at great or excessive cost; a ruinous victory). While our consoles or games collect dust or sit in their shrink wraps as we purchase things we collect more often then play, or are more disinterested and find a lack of depth and enjoyment.
  • Pythias - Monday, November 14, 2005 - link

    quote:

    I can play the latest Xbox game on my 4 year old Xbox, but can I play the latest PC game on my 4 year old video card? NOPE.


    Exactly. Lets hope they dont go designing new consoles every 18 months :P
  • Pythias - Monday, November 14, 2005 - link

    Certainly beats spending 700 bucks on a video card. At least you know with a console, you're good for 5 years worth of playability.
  • n yusef - Monday, November 14, 2005 - link

    I'm 19 now, turning 20 on Xbox360 launch day. I had originally tried to pre-order the $400 premium system, but EB Games decided that they wanted me to pay $700 for their bundle. I was having a hard time justifying buying it as a birthday gift to myself already, but I don't have $700 to burn like that.

    I've decided to wait until all three systems are released to buy one.
  • WW2Planes1 - Monday, November 14, 2005 - link

    I grew up in the Virginia suburbs of DC, where people own million dollar houses and buy thier kids BMWs. I was not one of the kids to recieve a BMW, but knowing there are parents who will buy their kid that kind of car (most likely with a minimal contribution from the child, these are high schoolers), makes it easier for me to believe that there are parents who will buy their child a $700 gaming console for Christmas.
  • Josh7289 - Monday, November 14, 2005 - link

    Hey, Anand.

    I'm only 16, but I do think that $700 is still way to much for a console. Don't worry, though, Nintendo will come through with a much cheaper (better) console. ;P
  • CheesePoofs - Monday, November 14, 2005 - link

    I'm 16 also, and I my parents would never buy me, or my younger brother, a $700 console.
  • gnumantsc - Monday, November 14, 2005 - link

    Just like the subject suggests consoles are going up yet the price of computers are going the opposite.

    I mean come on sheesh. Get the kid in front of a computer maybe he'll learn. I had NES and ColecoVision and when computers were starting to get popular in the early 90s I focused my energy on that learning tricks and stuff about Windows.

    Where do consoles get you besides nowhere. If consoles and stuff weren't bloated like they are now, maybe families will have 1 working parent who can support a family and not let the kid be at home alone eat the junk food and say he's happy.

    It's quite pathetic and it has to stop somewhere... Since when did Anandtech go with consoles besides this past year? I want laptop review thinking about Acer Travelmate 4400 series nice AMD Turion 64 X700 graphics....
  • Bona Fide - Monday, November 14, 2005 - link

    A bit much if you ask me. Microsoft is just milking consumers now with this. I guess their marketing teams established that $700 was the threshold of sanity for most people. Any less and they would be losing profits. Any more and people would be thinking it's too expensive.
  • Calin - Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - link

    They take the cream out of the market - they sell first a limited number of consoles for a lot of money - so that the ones that really really wants them will buy them at whatever price. Then, they reduce the price a bit and sell a bit more consoles. Then, they reduce the price again and sell even more. In the end, they will have an "unlimited" supply of consoles at a price that gives them the profit they want.
    This way they keep their profit margin on the consoles near the max - if there are people that would pay $700 to have the console the day it launches, why should disappoint them?
  • Insomniac - Monday, November 14, 2005 - link

    You can still get the core system for $300. Add a game and that is $350. The price is exactly the same as it was 4 years ago when the Xbox came out. The ridiculous thing is all this bundling, which seems to have come with the last generation of systems, mostly with online retailers. Unfortunatley, the pricing continues to go up. Can't get a system, 2 controllers and a game for $80 any more. :)
  • Pannenkoek - Monday, November 14, 2005 - link

    A quick google gives me an average inflation rate of 3.17 for the past 20 years, 1.0317^20 = 1.87, $700/1.867 = $375. Prices are relative and we remember the past, some people think everything is expensive. ;)
  • Quiksel - Monday, November 14, 2005 - link

    I see parents buying this stuff as an easy remedy to the holiday shopping. ONE STOP! :D And it's guaranteed to be a hit. All the friends will want to come over, etc., etc. :)

    And I only ever see <10 year-olds playing the 360 at the BB's and WalMart's out there, so I know they've got one at home... They just gotta. :)

    Older crowd games out there, but there's still the younger kids playin em. IMO. I definitely think it's growin' them up quicker. Everything's (that's popular, that is) an FPS! :D
  • George Powell - Monday, November 14, 2005 - link

    I feel very similar about the Xbox 360. It is very expensive, even more when you factor in the cost of games. Certainly when I was young my parents never spent anything like that on a single present.

    I do think that the target audience has changed. I can certainly see a million 20 somethings with disposable income ordering the Xbox 360. And I'm sure many of these will also do the same for the PS3 next year.

    I don't think we're over the hill just yet, but consoles are turning out to be more of an adult plaything these days. Until we have kids that is when we use the excuse that we are treating them.
  • darkswordsman17 - Monday, November 14, 2005 - link

    Yeah, its the older crowd for sure. There's quite a large number of 15-25 year olds who have a lot of disposable income (or at least treat their income thusly).

    Also, there are a lot of parents who buy it for themselves, reasoning that hey its for the kids too, and thus can better justify it that way. Its similar to how TVs, VCRs, and DVD players had become, where they bought it for the whole family.

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